the good news is i will be happy to have you take a look. look at how we get to a balanced budget within 8-10 years. we are reducing spending in a number programs. the first thing we want to get rid of is at obamacare. a lot of things sound good, but we cannot afford it. i would get rid of that on day one. all i would take out program after program that we do not absolutely need to have. i would take some programs that we need to keep like medicaid, which is a program for the poor, and we give it to the states to run. states run these programs more efficiently. as a governor i thought, give me this program. the states are proving it. states like arizona and rhode island have taken these and have shown that they can run

these programs more cost effectively. it gets us to a balanced budget within 8-10 years. let's get to the military. >> that is what i try to find out about. >> he should have answered the first question. governor romney has called for $5 trillion of tax cuts that he says he will pay for by closing deductions. the math does not work, but he claims he will do it. he wants to spend $2 trillion on military spending that our military is not asking for. our military spending has gone up every single year since i have been in office. we spend more on their military and the next 10 countries combined. china, france, the night kingdom, you name it. we need to work with their joint chiefs of staff to think about, what are we going to need in

the future to make sure we are safe? that is the budget we put forward. what you cannot do is spend $2 trillion in additional military spending that the military is not asking for, $5 trillion on tax cuts. you say you will pay for this by cutting loopholes and deductions without naming what those loopholes and deductions are. you are somehow going to do with the deficit that we have the math simply does not work. when it comes to our military,what we have to think about is not just budgets, we have got to think about capabilities. we need to be think about cyber security, we need to be thinking about space. that is what our budget does but it is driven by a strategy. it is not driven by politics. it is not driven by members of congress and what they would like to see. what are we going to need to

keep the american people saved? that is what our budget does. it also allows us to reduce our deficit. we have got to make sure that our economy is strong at home and we can project military power overseas. >> i am pleased with the balanced budget. -- i am pleased that i have balanced budgets. i was in the world of business for 25 years. if you do not balance your budget, you got a business. i went to the olympics and it was part of balance and we had a success there. i got to be governor of a state, four years in a row, republicans and democrats came together to balance the budget. we cut taxes 19 times and balance the budget. as the president balanced the budget yet? i expect to have the opportunity myself. let's talk about military spending. our navy is smaller now than any time since 1917. the navy said they needed 313 ships to carry out their mission. we are at 285.

we are going to the low 200's we -- if we go through sequestration. that is unacceptable to me. i want to assure we have the ships required by the navy. the air force is smaller than anytime since we found it in 1947. we have changed for the first time since fdr -- we always have the strategy that we could fight in two conflicts at once. now we change it to one conflict. the highest priority of the united states is to maintain the safety of the united states. i will not cut the military by $1 trillion. which is a combination of the budget cuts the president has as well as the sequestration cuts. in my view, that is making our future less certain at less secure. >> this is not something that i proposed. it is something that congress propose. it will not happen. the budget that we are talking about is not reducing our military spending, it is maintaining it. governor romney has not spent

enough time looking at how our military works. you look at the navy for example. we also have fewer horses and bayonets. the nature of our military has changed. we have these things called aircraft carrier's warplanes plan of them. -- where planes land on them. we have shipside go underwater and nuclear submarines. this is not a game of battleship where we are counting ships. it is, what are our capabilities? when i sit down with the secretary of the navy and the joint chiefs of staff, we determine how we will meet our faith with our troops. making sure that the veterans have the kind of support they need when they come home. that is not reflected in the kind of budget you are putting forward. it just does not work. we visited the website and it still does not work. >> i would like to move to the

next segment. red lines, is real and iran. -- israel and iran. you each have two minutes. would either of you be willing to declare that an attack on israel is an attack on the united states which is the same promise we give too close allies like japan. if you made such a declaration, would that not deter iran? it deterred the soviet union for a long time when we made that promise. >> israel is our true friend and greatest ally in the region. america will stand with israel. i made it clear throughout my presidency. >> you are saying i have already made that declaration. >> i will stand with israel if they are attacked.

this is the reason whyworking with israel, we have created the strongest intelligence cooperation in our history. -- military and intelligence cooperation between our two countries in history. this week, we will be carrying out the largest military exercise in history with israel, this week. the issue of iran -- as long as i'm president of the united states, iran will not get a nuclear weapon. i made that clear when we came into office. we have organized the strongest coalition and the stronger sanctions against iran in their history. it is crippling their economy. their oil production has plunged to the lowest level since they were fighting a war with iraq 20 years ago. their economy is in shambles. a nuclear iran is a threat to our national security. and it is a threat to israel's national security. we cannot afford to have a volatile region in the world.

iran is a state sponsor of terrorism. for them to provide nuclear technology, that does not acceptable. they would like to see israel wiped off the map. they ooffer iran a choice. -- the work that we have done with respect to sanctions, now offers a lot of choice. they can take the diplomatic route and and the nuclear program or they will have to face a united world and a united states president that says that we will not take any options off the table. the disagreement i have with governor romney -- during the course of this campaign, governor romney has often talked as if we should take premature military action. when i send young men and women into harm's way, we see this as a last resort, not a first resort. >> i want to underscore the same point that the president made. if i am president of united states, when i am president of the united states, we will stand with israel. we have their back. but just diplomatically,

culturally, and militarily. with regards to iran and iraq, there is no question that a nuclear capable iran is unacceptable to america. it presents a threat to our friends. but also a threat to us ifthey have nuclear material that they could use to be threatening to us. it is essential for us to understand what our mission is in iran. that is to dissuade iran from having a nuclear weapon in peaceful ways. -- through peaceful and diplomatic means. crippling sanctions is something i call for five years ago five years ago speaking at a conference, i laid out seven steps. they do work. you are seeing it right now. it is the right thing to do to have crippling sanctions. it is good that we have them. something i would add to that

idea, i would tighten those sanctions. ships carry iranian oil cannot come into our ports. i would imagine the e.u. would agree with us. i would tighten those sanctions further. i would take on diplomatic isolation efforts. i would make sure that ahmadinejad would be indicted for genocide. his words about to genocide. i would want them to be treated like the perahia they are across the world. the same way we treated apartheid in south africa. a solution to this which stops this nuclear folly of theirs is unacceptable to america. the military action is the last resort. it is something i would only consider if all of the other avenues had been tried to their full extent.

>> let me ask you, as you know, there are reports that iran and united states have agreed in principle to talk about iran's nuclear program. what if the deal -- what is the deal that you would accept, mr. president? >> those are reports in the newspaper. they are not true. our goal is to get iran to see that it is to give up its nuclear program and abide by the united nations sanctions put in place. -- u.n. resolutions that have been put in place. there are people in iran that have the same aspirations as all over the world. for a better life. we hope that their leadership makes the right decision. the deal we'll accept is they'll end their nuclear program.

it is very straightforward. i am glad that governor romney agrees with the steps that we are taking. there have been times during the campaign where you said that you would do the same thing as we did, but you would say it louder. it turns out that the work involved in setting up these crippling sanctions is painstaking. we started from the day you got into the office. we had to make sure that all the countries participated. even countries like russia and china. we have had sanctions in place for a long time. iran is seeing so much pressure. there is a deal to be had. that is that they abide by the

rules that were established. there are inspections that are very intrusive. but over time what they can do is regain credibility. in the meantime, we will not that of the pressure until we have clear evidence. one last thing. the clock is ticking. we are not going to allow iran to perpetually engaged in negotiations that lead nowhere. and i have been very clear to them. because of the intelligence coordination that we do with a range of countries, including israel, we have a sense of when they would get break out capacity, which means we would not able to intervene in time to stop their nuclear program and the clock is ticking. and we are going to make sure that if they did not meet the demands of the international community, then we are going to take all options necessary to mention of the do not and a

nuclear weapon. >> i think from the very beginning, one of the challenges we had with iran is that they have looked at this administration and felt that the administration was not as strong as it needed to be. i think they saw weakness where they had expected to find american strength. and say that because some of the beginning, the president and his campaign some four years ago said he meet with all the world's worst actors and his first year, he'd sit down with chavez and kim jong-il, with castro, with president and ahmadinejad of iran. and i think a lot of thought, well that's an unusual honor to receive the -- from the president of the united states. and then the present began what i've called an apology to or of going to various nations in the middle east and criticizing america. i think they looked at that and saw weakness. and when there were dissidents in the streets of tehran, the green revolution, holding a sign saying, is america with us, the president was silent. i think they notice that as well. and i think when the president said he was going to create

daylight between ourselves and israel -- that they notice that as well. all of these things suggested, i think, to the iranian mullahs that, hey, we can keep on pushing along, we can keep talks going on, we are just going to keep spinning centrifuges. now there are some tend thousand centrifuges spinning uranium, premier -- preparing to create a nuclear threat to the united states and to the world. that is unacceptable to us, and it is essential for a president to show strength from the very beginning to make it very clear what is acceptable and not acceptable. and an iranian nuclear program is not acceptable to us. that was not develop nuclear capabilities. and the way to mature the understand that is by having from the very beginning the tightest sanctions possible. they need to be tightened. our diplomatic isolation needs to be tougher. we need to indict ahmadinejad. when you to put the pressure on them as hard as we possibly can because if we do that we will not have to take the military action. if >> let me just respond.

nothing governor romney just said is true, starting with the notion of the apologizing. this has been probably the biggest what bird that's been told during the course of the campaign, and every fact checker and never reporter looked at it, the governor has -- has said it is not true. and when it comes to a tightening sanctions, look, as said before, we put in the toughest most crippling sanctions ever and the fact is while we were coordinating an international coalition to make sure the sanctions were effective, you were still invested in a chinese state oil company that was doing business with the iranian oil sector. so i let the american people decide who is going to be more effective and more credible when it comes to imposing crippling sanctions. and with respect to our attitude about the iranian revolution, i was very clear about the murderous activities that had taken place and that was contrary to international law and everything that civilized people stand for.

and so the strength that we have shown in iran is shown by the fact that we've been able to mobilize the world. when i came to office the world was divided. iran was resurgent. iran is at its weakest point economically, strategically, militarily than cents -- than in many years. and we are going to continue to keep the pressure on to the sure they do not in a nuclear weapon. that is in america's national interest and that will be the case along i am present. >> we are four years closer to a nuclear iran. we are four years closer to a nuclear iran. and we should not have wasted these four years to the extent they continue to be about to spin these subterfuges and get that close. 's number one. number two, mr. previn, the reason i call it an apology or is you went to the middle east -- he flew to egypt and saudi arabia and turkey and iraq. and, by the way, use of israel

-- are closest to rent -- friend in the region -- but you went to the other nations. and by the way, they noticed that it is real. and in those nations and on every tv set america has been dismissive and derisive. he said that on occasion america had dictated to other nations. mr. kravis -- mr. president, america has not dictated to other nations. we have freed other nations from dictators. >> let me respond. you know, if we are going to talk but trips we've taken. when i was candidate for office, the first trip i took was to visit our troops. and when i went to israel as a candidate, i didn't take donors, i didn't attend fund-raisers, i went to the holocaust museum there to remind myself the nature of evil and why our bond of israel would be unbreakable. then i went down to the border towns which had experienced

missiles raining down from hamas. and i saw families there who showed me where missiles had come down near their children's bedrooms and i was reminded of what that would mean if those were my kids, which is why, as president, we've funded the fiery doom program to stop those missiles. -- iron domoe. so that's how i have used my travels when i travel to israel and when the trouble to the region. and the central question at this point is going to be who is going to be credible to all parties involved. let's look at my track record -- whether it is iran sanctions, dealing with counterterrorism, supporting democracy, supporting women's rights, whether supporting religious minorities and they can say as president of the united states and the united states of america has stood on the right side of history. and that kind of credibility is

precisely why we have been able to show leadership on a wide range of issues facing the world right now. >> what if the -- what if the prime minister of israel call you on the phone and said, our bombers on the way we're going to bomb iran -- what do you say? >> let's not going to hypothetical of that nature. our relationship with israel, my relationship with the prime minister of israel is such that we would not because saying our bombers on the way for their fighters on the way. this is the kind of thing that would have been discussed and thoroughly evaluated well before that kind of action. >> you are saying -- >> let's come back to the fact of what the president speaking about the terms of what is happening in the world and president's a statement that things going so well -- i look at what is happening around the world and i see iran four years closer to a bomb, as italy's with a rising tide of violence,

chaos,, alt. icu hottest continuing to spread. but the their rising adjust about the same level -- hard to precisely measure, but it's clear that they are very strong. i see syria with 30,000 civilians dead. assad is the one power. i see our trade deficit with china larger -- growing larger every year as a matter of fact. a look around the world and i don't feel that -- you see no. 3 and 2 to export their nuclear technology. which is said that are not going to follow nunn-lugar any more, back away from the nuclear proliferation treaty that we have with them. i look around the world and i do not see our influence growing around the world but i see it receding, in part because of the failure of the present to deal with our economic challenges at home, in part because of our withdrawal from our commitment to our military and the way i think it ought to be, and a part because of the term will with israel. i mean, the president received a letter from 38 democratic

senators said intentions with israel were a real problem. they asked him, please repair the attention -- democrat senators -- please repair the damage in his own party. >> the governor -- governor, the problem is that on a whole range of issues, whether it's been the least, whether it is afghanistan, whether it iraq, whether it's now iran, you've been all over the map. i mean, and pleased that you are now endorsing our policy of applying diplomatic pressure and potentially have a bilateral discussions with the iranians to end the nuclear program. but just a few years ago you said that something you would never do, and the same way that you initially opposed a time table in afghanistan, now you are for its although it depends. in the same way that you say you would have ended the war in iraq, but recently gave a

speech saying we should have 20,000 more folsom there, the same way you said it was mission creep to go after gaddafi. when it comes to going after osama bin laden, you said, what any president's mccall. but when you wore -- where a candidate in 2000, as i was, and i said i've got bin laden in our sites i would take that shot you said we shouldn't move heaven and earth to get one man and use it with just five stand for permission. if we had asked pakistan for permission we would not have got him. it was worth moving heaven and earth to get him. give up, after which of bin laden, i was at ground zero for a memorial and talk to a young woman who was four years old when 9/11 happen. and the last conversation she had with her father was him calling from the twin towers saying i love you, i will always watch over you.

and for the next decade she was haunted by that conversation. and she said to me, you know, by finally getting bin laden that brought some closure to me. and when we do things like that, we bring those who have harmed us to justice that sends a message to the world, and it tells peyton thus we cannot forget her father. and i made that point because that of the kind of clarity of leadership and those decisions are not only do those decisions generally a couple test. and even some of my own party including my current vice- president at the same critique as you did. but what the american people understand is that i look at what we need to get done to keep the american people safe and to move our interest forward. >> all right -- let's go, it leads us -- this takes us right to the next segment the mcgovern, america's longest war, afghanistan and pakistan.

the president's just let out a whole series of items without giving me a chance to respond. >> with respect, you've laid out what the program. >> that is probably true. >> we will catch up. >> we will agree. >> the ninth state to scuttle to turn over responsibility for security in afghanistan to the afghans by 2014. at that point we will withdraw our combat troops. leave a smaller force of americans, if i understand our policy, in afghanistan for training purposes. it seems to me the key question here is what do you do if the deadline arrives and it is obvious that afghans are unable to handle their security? do we still leave? and i believe, governor romney, you go first. >> we are going to be finished by 2014, and what i am present, will make sure we bring our bring our troops out by the end of 2014. the commanders and the generals there are on track to do so.

we've seen progress over the past several years. the search has been successful at, and the training program is proceeding at pace. there are now a large number of afghan security forces, 350,000, that are ready to step in to provide security. and we're going to be to make that transition by the end of 2014. so our troops will come home at that point. i can tell you, at the same time, that we will make sure that we look at what is happening in pakistan and recognize that what is happening in pakistan is going to of a major impact on the success in afghanistan. and i said that because i know a lot of people just feel like we should just brush our hands and walk away. and i don't mean you, mr. president, but some people in our nation feel that pakistan is not being nice to us and which is walk away from them. but pakistan is important to the region, to the world, and to us, because pakistan as 100 nuclear warheads, and they're rushing to build a lot more. the hot more than great prudence

sometime in the relatively near future. the also have the haqqani network and the taliban existent within their country. and so, a pakistan that falls apart, becomes a failed state, would be of extraordinary data to afghanistan and to us. and so we're going to have to remain helpful in encouraging pakistan to move towards a more stable government and rebuild a relationship with us. and that means that our aid that we provide to pakistan is the to have to be conditioned upon certain benchmarks been met. so for me and i look at this as both the need to help move pakistan and the right direction and also to get afghanistan to be ready and they will be ready by the end of 2014. >> mr. president. you know, when i came into office we were still bogged down in iraq and afghanistan have been drifting for a decade. we end of the war in iraq, refocus our attention on afghanistan and we did deliver a surge of troops.

that was this a look it apart because we ended the war in iraq. and we are now in the system where we have met many of the objectives that got us there in the first place. part of what had happened is we forgot what would go on. we went because there were people who were responsible for 300 -- 3000 american deaths. and so we decimated al-qaeda's core leadership in the border region between afghanistan and pakistan. we then started to build up afghan forces. and we're now in a position where we can transition out because there's no reason why americans should die when afghans are perfectly capable of defending their country. now, that transition has to take place in a responsible fashion. we've been there a long time and we've got to make sure that we and our coalition partners are pulling out responsibly and giving afghans of the capabilities they need. but what i think the american be

the recognizes after a decade of war it's time to do nation- building your home. and what we can do now is free up some resources to, for example, put americans back to work, especially veterans, rebuilding our roads, bridges, our schools, making sure that, you know, our veterans are getting the care that they need when it comes to post traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury, making sure that the certification is that they need for good jobs in the future are in place. you know i was having lunch with a veteran in minnesota who had been a medic dealing with the most extreme circumstances. when he came home anyone to become a nurse he had to start from scratch and what we've said is, let's change those certifications. the first light have done great work with organizations putting our veterans back to work. and as a consequence, veterans unemployment is actually now lower than the general

corporate -- population, it was ironic into office. so those are the kinds of things that we can now do because we're making that transition in afghanistan. >> all right, let me go to governor romney because you talk about pakistan and what needs to be done there. general allan, our commander in afghanistan said that americans continue to die at the hands of groups who are supported by pakistan. we know pakistan has arrested the doctor who helped us catch osama -- catch obama's -- bin laden. it still provides a haven for terrorists yet we continue to give pakistan billion dollars. is it time for us to of course pakistan? >> no, it is not time to of course a nation on earth that has a hundred nuclear weapons and is on a way to double that at some point, a nation that has serious threats from terrorist groups within its nation -- as indicated before, the taliban,

haqqani network. it's a nation that does not like others in that it does not have a logo -- a civilian leadership, the shots. you have the isi, their intelligence organizations probably the most powerful of the three branches. then have the military and then you have the civilian government. this is a nation which if it falls apart, if it becomes a failed state, there are nuclear weapons there and you got terrorists there who could grab their hands of those nuclear weapons. this is -- this is an important part of the world for us. pakistan is technically an ally and not acting. much like an ally right now, but we have some work to do. and i don't blame the administration for the fact that the relationship with pakistan is strained. we had to go into pakistan, we have to go in there to get osama bin laden. that was the right thing to do. and that upset them, but there was obviously a great deal of anger even before that. but we're going to have to work with the people and pakistan to

try and help them move to a more responsible course than the one that they are on. and it is important for them, it is important for nuclear weapons, is important for the success of afghanistan because inside pakistan you have a large group of pashtun taliban will be rushing back into afghanistan when we go. that is one of the reasons why the afghan security forces have so much work to do to be able to fight against that. but it is important for us to recognize that we cannot just walk away from pakistan. but what we do need to make sure it is as we send support for them, that it is tied to the making progress on matters that will lead them to becoming a civil society. >> let me ask you, governor, because when a president obama's position on this -- what is your position on the use of drones? >> walk, i believe that we should use any and all means necessary to take out people who pose a threat to us and our friends around the world. and it's widely reported that drones are being used in drone

strikes, and i support that entirely and feel the president was right to up the usage of that technology and i believe that we should continue to use it and go after people will represent a threat to this nation and to our friends. let me also note that, as a said earlier, were going to have to do more than just going after leaders and killing bad guys -- important as that is. we're also going to up to have a far more effective and comprehensive strategy to help move the world away from terror and islamic extremism. we have not done that yet. we talk a lot about these things but you look at the record. the look of the record of the last four years and say -- is iran closer to a bomb? yes. is the least into more -- tumult? yes. is al-qaeda on the run, on its heels? no. is israel and palestinians closer to reaching a peace agreement? no. they have not had talks in two years. we have not seen the progress we need to have, and i'm convinced that with a strong leadership

and an effort to build a strategy based upon helping these nations reject extremism we can see the kind of peace and prosperity the world demands. >> well, keep in mind our strategy wasn't just going after bin laden. we created partnerships throughout the region to deal with extremism -- in somalia, in yemen, in pakistan. and what we've also done is engage these governments in the kind of reforms that are actually going to make a difference in people's lives day-to-day, to make sure that their government aren't corrupt, to make sure that they are treating women with the kind of respect and dignity that every nation that succeeds as shown, and to make sure that they've got a free market system that works. so across-the-board, we are engaging them in building capacity in those countries and we have stood on the side of democracy. one thing i think americans should be proud of -- wind tunisian began to protest, this

nation -- me, my administration stood with them earlier than just about any other country. in egypt we stood on the side of democracy. in libya was still on the side of the people. and as a consequence there is no doubt that a man -- attitudes about americans have changed. but there are always calling to the elements in those countries that potentially threatened the united states. and we want to shrink those groups and those networks and we can do that, but we're always also going to have to maintain vigilance when it comes to tell respect of these. the truth, though, is that al qaeda is much weaker than it was when i came into office and they don't have the same capacity to attack the united states homeland and allies as they did four years ago. let's go to the next segment because it's a very important one. it is the rise of china and the future challenges for america. i want to just begin this by

asking both you -- and mr. president, you go first this time -- what do you believe it is the greatest future threat to the national security of this country. >> well, i think it will continue to be terrorist networks. we have to remain vigilant, as i just said. but with respect to china, china's both and at this every but also a potential partner in the international community if it's following the rules. so my attitude coming into office was that we are going to insist that china plays by the same rules as everyone else. and i know americans had seen jobs being shipped overseas, businesses and workers not getting a level playing field when it came to trade. and that is the reason why i set up a trade task force to go after cheaters when it came to international trade. that is the reason why we

brought more cases against china for violating trade rules than the priebus administration had done in two terms. and we won just about every case that we filed, that has been decided. in fact, just recently, steelworkers in ohio and throughout the midwest, pennsylvania, are in a position now to sell steel to china because we won that case. we had a tire case in which they were flooding us with cheap domestic tires -- or cheap chinese tires. and we put a stop to it and as a consequence saved jobs throughout america. i have to say that governor romney criticized me for being too tough in that tire case. saying this would not be good for american workers and it would be protectionist but i tell you those workers do not feel that way. they feel as if they have finally at a ministration was going to take this issue seriously. over the long term in order for us to compete with china, we've also got to make sure though

that we are taking business -- taking care of business here at home. if we do not have the best education system in the world, if we dump it to me to put money into research and technology that will allow us to create great businesses here in the united states that is how we lose the competition, and a fortune on the commenter -- unfortunately, governor romney's budget and his proposals would not allow us to make those investments. then a first of all, it is not government that makes business successful. it's not government investments that make businesses grow and hire people let me also note that the greatest threat of the world faces, the greatest national security threat, is a nuclear iran. let's talk about china. china has an interest that very much like ours in one respect -- and that is they want a stable world. they don't want war. but want to see protectionism. they don't want to see the world break out into various forms of chaos because they have to do they have to manufacture goods and put people to work. they have about 20 million

people coming out of the forms every year, coming into the cities, needing jobs. so they want the economy to work in the world to be free and open. and so we can be a partner with china. we don't have to be an adversary in any way, shape, or form. we can work with them. we can collaborate with them if they're willing to be responsible. now, they looked at us and say, is it a good idea to be with america? how strong are we going to be? how strong as our economy. a look at the fact that we owe them a trillion dollars and zero other people $16 trillion total, including but. the look at our decision to cut back on a military capabilities a trillion dollars. the secretary defense called these trillion dollars of cuts to our military devastating. it's not my turn. it's the president's of separate and calling them devastating. they look at america's his commitments from the world and they see what's happening in the same well, okay, is america going to be strong? and the answer is yes. if i present, america will be very strong. also insure that we hate -- have

trade relations with china that work for us. i've watched your in and year out as companies have shut down and people have lost their jobs because china has not played by the same rules, in part by holding down artificially the value of their currency. it holds down the prices of their goods. it means our goods are not as competitive and we lose jobs. that's got to end. they're making some progress, they need to make more. that's why on the one i will label than a currency manipulator which allows us to apply tariffs where they're taking jobs. the stealing our intellectual property, our patents, are designed, our technology, hacking into our computers, counterfeiting our goods. the have to understand, we want to trade with them, we want a world that is stable, we like free enterprise, but you got to play by the rules. >> well, governor, let me just ask you -- if you declare them a card to manipulator on day one, some blessing your just on to start a trade war with china on day one. is that -- isn't there a risk

that could happen? >> well, they sell us about this much of every year. but we sell them about this much stuff every year. so it's pretty clear he does not want a trade war. and there's one going right now which we don't know about. it is a silent one, and they are winning. we have an enormous trade imbalance with china, and it is worse this year than last year. and it was worse last year than the year before. and so we have to understand that we can't just surrender and lose jobs year in and year out. we have to say to our friends in china, look, you are applying aggressively, we understand it -- but this can keep on going. you can't keep on holding down the value of your currency, stealing our intellectual property, counterfeiting our products, selling them round the world, even to the united states. i was with one company that makes valves and process industries. and said look, we were having some valves coming in that were broken and we have to be put -- repair the one the warranted. will look them up and a half hour serial number on the.

and then we noticed that there was more than one with the same serial number. they were counterfeit products be made overseas with the same serial number as a u.s. company, the same packaging. these were being sold into our market and the rubble world as if it were made by the u.s. competitor. this can't go on. i want a great relationship with china. china can be our partner. but that does not mean they can just roll over us and steal our jobs on an unfair basis. >> welcome governor romney's right. you are familiar with jobs and should overseas because you invest in companies that were shipping jobs overseas. and, you know, that you're right. i mean, that is how our free market works. but i've made a different bed on american workers. you know, if we had taken the advice, governor romney, about our auto industry, would be buying cars from china instead of selling chart -- cars to china. if we take your advice with respect to how we change our tax code so that companies that earn profits overseas cannot pay u.s. taxes compared to companies here

that are paying taxes, that is estimated to create a hundred thousand jobs. the problem is they will not be here, they will be in places like china. and if we're not making investments in education and basic research, which is not something that the private- sector is doing at a sufficient case right now and has never done, then we will lose the lead in things like clean energy technology. now, with respect to what we have done with china already, u.s. exports have doubled since i came to office, to china. and actually, currencies are at their most advantageous points for the best exporters since 1993. absolutely have to make more progress, and that is why we're going to keep on pressing. and when it comes to our military and chinese security, part of the reason that we were able to give it to the asia- pacific region after having ended the war in iraq and transitioning out of afghanistan is precisely because this is going to be a massive growth

area in the future. and we believe china can be a partner but we're also sending a very clear signal that america is a pacific power, that we are going to have a presence there. we are working with countries in the region to make sure, for example, can pass through, that commerce continues. and were organizing trade relations with countries other than china so that china starts feeling more pressure about needing basic international standards. that is the kind of leadership we shown in the region, that of the kind of leadership we will continue to show. >> at this one take one of those points. again, attacking me is not talking to about the agenda for getting more trade and opening up more jobs in this country. but the president mentioned the auto industry and that somehow i would be in favor of jobs being elsewhere. nothing could be further from the truth. i am a son of detroit. i was born in detroit. my dad was head of a car company. i like american cars.

and i would do nothing to heard the u.s. auto industry. my plan is to get the industry on its feet when it was in real trouble was not to start writing checks. it was president bush does wrote the first jets. i disagree but that. i said they need to these companies need to go through a managed bankruptcy, and in that process that the government help and government guarantees, but they need to go through bankers say to get rid of excess costs and the debt burden that they built up. and unfortunately -- >> that is not what you said -- >> i said we would provide government guarantees, and that what a little to allow the companies to allow them to come out of bankruptcy. under no circumstances would i do anything other than to help this industry get on its feet. and the idea that has been suggested that i would liquidate the industry -- of course not. of course not. >> let's check the record. >> that is the height of salinas. >> let's check the record.

>> i have never said i would liquidate the industry. i want to keep the industry growing and thriving. and that is why have the kind of commitments to insure that our industries in this country can compete and be successful. we in this country can compete successfully with anyone in the world. and we are going to. going to have to have a present, however, that does not think that somehow the government investing in car companies like tesla and fisker electric battery cars -- this is not research, this is government investing in companies from investing in solyndra. this is a company. this is not basic research. i want to invest in research research is great. providing funding to universities and think tanks are great, but investing in companies? absolutely not. that of the wrong way to go. >> governor, the fat -- >> i'm still speaking. so i want to make sure that we make america more competitive and we do those things that make america the most attractive place in the world for entrepreneurs, innovators, businesses to grow to rebut your

investing in companies cannot do that. in fact, it makes it less likely for them to come here because the private sector is not going to invest in a solar company -- if you are investing in somebody else's. >> i think anybody out there and check the record. governor romney, and keep on trying to, you know, airbrush history here. you're very clear that you would not provide government assistance to the u.s. auto companies even if they went through bankruptcy. you said they could get it in the private marketplace. that was not true. they would have gone through -- >> you are wrong. >> no, i am not wrong. >> you are wrong. >> more importantly it is true in order to be competitive were going to have to make some smart choices right now. cutting our education budget, that is not a smart choice. that will not help us compete with china. cutting our investments in research and technology, that is not a smart choice.

that will not help us compete with china. bringing down our deficit by adding $7 trillion of tax cuts and military spending that our military is not asking for before we even get to the debt that we currently have -- that is not going to make us more competitive. those are the kinds of choices that the american people face right now. having a tax code that rewards companies that are shipping jobs overseas instead of companies that are investing here in the united states -- that will not make this more competitive. and the one thing that i am not to the clear about is that after it -- after a decade in which we saw a thrift, jobs being shipped overseas, nobody champing american workers and american businesses, we now begun to make some real progress. what we can't do is go back to the same policies that got us into such a difficulty in the first place. that is why we have to move forward and a pullback. am i couldn't agree --

>> i couldn't agree more about going forward but i certainly don't want to go back to the policies of the last four years. the policies has seen incomes in america declined every year for middle income families, now down $4,300 during your term, 23 million americans still struggling to find a good job. when it came into office, 32 million people on food stamps -- today, 47 million people on food stamps. when it came to office, just over $10 trillion in debt, now $16 trillion in debt. it hasn't worked. it said right now we would be at 5.4 percent unemployment. where 9 million jobs short of that. i've met some of those people. i've met them in appleton, wisconsin, i met a young woman in philadelphia for this coming out of college, can find work. ann was with someone just the other day who was the sweeping about not being able to get work. it's just a tragedy in a nation so prosperous as ours that these last four years have been so hard. and that is why it is so critical that we make america

once again the most attractive place in world to start businesses, to build jobs, to grow the economy. and that is not going to happen by just hire teachers. look, i love teachers and i'm happy to have states and communities that want to hire teachers do that. by the way, i don't like the fedor the government start pushing its way deeper and deeper into our schools. let the states and localities do that. i was a governor. the federal government did not hire our teachers. but i want to get our private sector going, and i know how to do it. >> i think what all the teachers. javelin, thank you so much for a very vigorous debate. we've come to an end. it's time for closing statements. i believe you are first, mr. president. >> thank you very much, bob, governor romney, and to lynn university. you have now heard three debates, months of campaigning and way to many tv commercials. and now you've got a choice. you know, over the last four years we've made real progress digging our way out of policies

that gave us two prolonged wars, record deficits and the worst economic crisis since the great depression. and governor romney wants to take us back to the policies. a foreign policy that is wrong and reckless, economic policies that will not create jobs, will not reduce our deficit, but will make sure that folks at the very top don't have to play by the same rules that you do. and i've got a different vision for america. i want to build on our strengths. and i put forward a plan to make sure we will bring manufacturing jobs back to our shores by rewarding companies and small businesses that are investing here, not overseas. i want to make sure we've got the best education system in the world and we're retaining a work -- retraining workers for the jobs of tomorrow. i want to control our own energy by developing oil and natural gas, but also energy sources of the future. yes, i want to reduce our deficit by cutting spending that we do not need but also by

asking the bulk of to do a little bit more so that we can invest in things like research and technology that are the key to a 21st century economy. as commander in chief, i will maintain the strongest military in the world, keep faith with our troops and go after those who would do us harm. but after a decade of war, i think we all recognize we've got to do some nation-building here at home, rebuilding roads, our bridges, and especially caring for our veterans who sacrificed so much for our freedom. we've been through tough times, but we always bounce back because of our character, because we pull together. and if i have the privilege of being your president another four years i promise you i always listen to your voices. i will fight for your families, and i will work every single day to make sure that america continues to be the greatest nation on earth. thank you. if >> thank you, bob, mr. president, folks and lynn university. good to be with you. i'm optimistic about the future. i'm excited about our prospects

as a nation. i want to see peace. i want to see growing peace in this country, it is our objective. we have an opportunity to have real leadership. america is going to have that kind of leadership and continue to promote principles of peace that will make the world a safer place and make people in this country more confident that their future is secure. i also want to assure that we get this economy going. and there are two very different paths the country can take. one is a path represent by the president, which, at the end of four years, would mean we have $20 trillion in debt, heading toward greece. i'll get us on track to a balanced budget. the president's path will mean continuing declining in take- home pay. i was to mature or take-home pay turns around and starts to grow. the president's path means 20 million be bought out of work struggling for a good job. i'll get people back to work with 12 million new jobs. i'm going to assure that we get people off of food stamps not by cutting the program, but by giving them good jobs.

ameritech is going to come back and for that to happen we are going to have to have a president of the work across the aisle. i was in a state or my legislature was 87% democrat. i learned how to get along on the other side of the aisle. we've got to do that in washington. washington is broken. i know what it takes to get this country back and we will work with the democrats and good republicans to do that. this nation is the hope of the earth. we've been blessed by having a nation that is free and prosperous thanks to the contributions of the greatest generation. they've held a torch for the world to see, the torch of freedom and hope and opportunity. now it is our turn to take back short -- that torch. i am convinced we will do it. we need strong leadership. i'd like to be that leader, and your support. i work with you. i leave you in an open and honest way. and ask for your vote. i'd like to be the next president of the united states to support and help discrimination and to make sure that we all together maintain

america's the hope of the earth. thank you so much. >> gentlemen, thank you both so much. that brings an end to this year's debates and we want to thank lynn university and its students for having us. as i always do at the end of these debates, i leave you with the words of my mom who said, go vote. it makes you feel good -- big and strong. good night. >> thank you. >> thank you. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

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[applause] [applause] >> with the final debate out of the way, the candidates will be busy campaigning today. on "washington journal" we will discuss the performances of last night's debate. live coverage of president obama's campaign rally in delray beach, florida. in the afternoon, mitt romney and paul ryan at a rally in henderson, nevada. and this evening, our cove